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[Music]

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welcome to the skeptic zone the podcast

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from australia for science and reason

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[Applause]

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[Music]

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well thank you everybody for joining us

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for this part of the proceedings it is

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my

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absolute pleasure and delight to

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introduce

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a voice you probably know very well if

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you listen to squaring the strange that

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wonderful podcast from the united states

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it's one of the co-hosts celestia ward

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hello celestia hi richard how are you

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doing well we're doing pretty well in

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australia and new zealand at the moment

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before we get into more about the

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podcast i

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am was just wrecking my brains i think

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we met you and i met at the amazing

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meeting in las vegas

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yes was it years and years ago years ago

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and and i i was wrecking my brains why

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were you there how did you find yourself

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being involved in this crazy skepticism

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and why were you at the amazing meeting

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well a friend of mine you know i've

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always had philosophical discussions and

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scientific discussions with close

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friends and a co-worker who i would have

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such discussions with said hey have you

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ever listened to you know skeptics guide

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to the universe and i said no never

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heard of that well there's this whole

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movement it's like the skeptics movement

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it's like kind of like the atheist

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movement but it's about skepticism and

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you know fighting

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can i curse bullcrap i'll say bullcrap

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it's about fighting bullcrap all right

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uh i i started getting into it a little

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bit and then i spent some time in the

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hospital and i think i've told you this

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story before i spent some time in the

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hospital where a bacterial infection

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tried to kill me and as a result i had

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to spend quite a bit of time uh just

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laying around bored as i healed up

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and i started listening to all these

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skeptical podcasts and yours was

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especially a favorite of mine

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um there's something very comforting

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about the way you blend skepticism with

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just

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nice comforting tones and oh i'm gonna

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go downstairs and get myself a

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slice of toast and put some

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whatever you guys put on it in in

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australia and

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and and warm up a cup of soup and then

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get to the skeptic zone and yes yeah and

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that just was very

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skepticism with a spoonful of homemade

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comfort

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and uh anyway that got me into

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skepticism and then i found out they do

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conventions and there was right in my

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hometown so how could i not go i got to

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attend i think three or four of them

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before they ended

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yes yes i i and i

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i guess it was the first time you were

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there or the second i can't remember

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exactly when but i you came to my

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attention i think you're wearing an

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artistic

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beret were you wearing a beret at the

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time don't think i know i only wear a

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beret if i'm actually quote unquote

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performing okay if i'm drawing

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caricatures uh obviously i'm getting

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lots of things conflated in my mind but

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i have

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at some of the skeptical meetings maybe

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that's it yeah you gave me

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you gave me your card and it was this

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crazy sketch of you madly running with a

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pencil

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and so uh

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so we we progress a few years and during

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the the time

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oh there it is

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that's exactly the one

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we're doing video now i can show things

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you can and

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a caricature you did of our dear friend

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dr angie matkey came to my attention and

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when i saw it i

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i was so impressed because when i looked

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at the caricature i could see

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angie's character

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her personality coming out

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wow that's that's an amazing

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uh skill she's celestia has developed

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i know

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i'll get one done forever our dear

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friend maynard and you did a wonderful

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caricature of maynard

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and then you did one of me which i was

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very thrilled and i still use maynard

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uses his on his business cards i use

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mine on my business card

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i am going to have to update it and put

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a little more snow on the roof i know

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right

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and then we and then i had you do one

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for a

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uh dear friend uh

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uh in melbourne

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um michelle biggesmar and she was

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thrilled with that so that's that's

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great

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that that's a wonderful thing that you

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do and folks it's it's it's it's

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terrific but

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i i'd like to thank you for calling it a

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skill that i've developed instead of a a

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god-given talent

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something that i was mystically imbued

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with because

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it comes with absolutely no work it's

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hard work and practice i can tell you

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that from my origami creations believe

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me folks it's hard work and use years of

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practice but let's get back let's get

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back to squaring the strange so there

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you were doing caricatures of skeptics

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like me and

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and our friends and

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being interested in the movement but now

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you're as i said you're one of the

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co-hosts of one of one of the the great

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skeptical podcasts how on earth did that

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all happen

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i asked myself that every every week

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i uh you know i befriended many skeptics

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and i i happened to befriend ben radford

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uh oddly enough at a caricature

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convention

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he is a fan of the art form and well

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he's got such a face for it hasn't he

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been right he does and it's not often a

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compliment but i think it can be one

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it's a compliment yeah yeah um and

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carrick gets your conventions i have to

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let you know up front

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it's not a it's not like a comic con

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it's not like everybody shows up

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only only caricature artists show up to

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caricature conventions we get together

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we drink we draw we pat each other back

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on the back and give awards and have

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little seminars

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but it's not kind of an open

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free-for-all we don't really get

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spectators and ben showed up

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and i saw his name tag and he had

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gravitated over to my table because for

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the uh the studio competition i had

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brought a little statuette that i had

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made of james randy yes i remember that

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very well it was terrific yes and i was

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hoping like maybe five or ten of the

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caricature artists there you know out of

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like 200

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might actually know who james randy was

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and uh

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ben made a beeline over my table and

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said that's james randy i said yes yes

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it is do you know who he is and then i

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looked at ben's name tag and i said do

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you know who you are

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because i i

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i recognized the name i'd read i heard

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them on podcasts and read some things

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and i said why are you here who are you

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are you married to somebody here are you

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which caricature artist did you come

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with and he said

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nobody i came by myself

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nobody does that

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but he just came to enjoy the artwork

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and the the competitions and and the

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culture of it and we of course became

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fast friends over the several days and

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uh

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after a while he and pascual decided to

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do it to do a podcast

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and he asked if i would sit in on the

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meeting yes and i said well sure

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uh why i'm not a skeptic well i'm a

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skeptic but i'm not a professional

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skeptic and he said but you listen to

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more skeptical podcasts than anyone i

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know

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so

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with that uh

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qualification i sat down we we went

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through a pizza and filled out a bunch

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of uh

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brainstorming charts and squaring the

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strange was born

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so you ran downstairs got a pizza as i

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run downstairs and i get my toast

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so that's great right from the word go

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but

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as we were discussing a little while ago

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when we were just

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warming up for this

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uh your involvement since the beginning

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has really progressed within the show

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hasn't it

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uh i i i guess i've started taking over

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without meaning to um

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i was always behind the scenes uh and i

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would you know i would do a number of

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things behind the scenes they

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technically gave me the title of content

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producer

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so i did a few administrative things and

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was always talking to them about uh

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organizing topics and keeping a running

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topics list which we that's a running

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joke with us we have a topics list

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that's like

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30 pages long at any given point and

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every time ben comes up with a new one

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that we should do a show about you hear

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a little bell

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yes he's awesome

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it's a running gag in the in the podcast

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i'm listening i'm you know i like to

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listen to screen strange when i'm doing

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my exercise walks and going along and

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ben says some topic we should do a show

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it's quite fun we didn't start doing

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that until like the second year but um

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it just became a thing and it was

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usually ben but sometimes it was a guest

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sometimes it was pesquel

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and i started contributing my voice uh

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thanks to you you kind of really you

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know you've helped scoring the strange

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behind the scenes

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so much i have emailed asking you

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questions and you know we've been on

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facebook you know chatting on the

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message thing how do we do this and what

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do we do you know

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what do you do about that and my best

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and yes you have you are i you know i

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don't want to call you one of the

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forefathers of podcasting because it's

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not like you're 150 years old you're

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but you were in there

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at the beginning of most skeptical

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podcasts relatively early on yeah yeah

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yeah well oddly enough i was doing

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pseudo podcasting sort of bits and

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pieces before it was really a thing

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as far back as 2000 2003 i think but

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this show

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or should i say the skeptic's own

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podcast the one i'm involved with

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started 2008 but

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uh

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sgu and skeptoid and the geologic

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podcast actually predate the skeptic

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zone

281
00:09:58,949 --> 00:09:57,040
so we're all been in it for a very long

282
00:10:01,350 --> 00:09:58,959
time yeah i thought i remembered you

283
00:10:03,509 --> 00:10:01,360
speaking with the novellas and uh and

284
00:10:05,910 --> 00:10:03,519
like you they had beaten you by like a

285
00:10:08,150 --> 00:10:05,920
week or something oh i i think if we dig

286
00:10:10,069 --> 00:10:08,160
down into it i can't remember

287
00:10:11,910 --> 00:10:10,079
but do you know it doesn't matter of

288
00:10:13,750 --> 00:10:11,920
course but yes they were all officially

289
00:10:15,350 --> 00:10:13,760
doing their shows before my show came

290
00:10:17,190 --> 00:10:15,360
along but we're all

291
00:10:18,710 --> 00:10:17,200
been doing it for well over a decade all

292
00:10:20,389 --> 00:10:18,720
of us yeah

293
00:10:20,600 --> 00:10:20,399
you've got a long way to go

294
00:10:23,829 --> 00:10:20,610
yeah

295
00:10:26,550 --> 00:10:23,839
[Laughter]

296
00:10:28,230 --> 00:10:26,560
my three-year-old son might be coming

297
00:10:28,949 --> 00:10:28,240
through on the audio i apologize for

298
00:10:31,190 --> 00:10:28,959
that

299
00:10:33,509 --> 00:10:31,200
but we do not have a gigantic house so

300
00:10:35,350 --> 00:10:33,519
there's no place i can hide we might get

301
00:10:37,190 --> 00:10:35,360
to things about your three to do with

302
00:10:39,269 --> 00:10:37,200
your three-year-old son in a minute so

303
00:10:42,069 --> 00:10:39,279
yes you were more behind the scenes

304
00:10:43,990 --> 00:10:42,079
but but i i mean you know i'm thrilled

305
00:10:45,350 --> 00:10:44,000
as the show progressed to hear more and

306
00:10:48,310 --> 00:10:45,360
more of you

307
00:10:49,110 --> 00:10:48,320
your input and your

308
00:10:51,190 --> 00:10:49,120
uh

309
00:10:53,430 --> 00:10:51,200
your microphone technique and your

310
00:10:55,670 --> 00:10:53,440
delivery i could hear it improving and

311
00:10:58,230 --> 00:10:55,680
progressing as the show went on which is

312
00:11:01,030 --> 00:10:58,240
great you've given me pointers to help

313
00:11:03,670 --> 00:11:01,040
improve that and i i appreciate those um

314
00:11:06,150 --> 00:11:03,680
i started uh doing skeptical fortune

315
00:11:07,990 --> 00:11:06,160
cookies on the show like

316
00:11:09,509 --> 00:11:08,000
the first or second year

317
00:11:11,990 --> 00:11:09,519
and uh it was just something that i

318
00:11:14,949 --> 00:11:12,000
would research a thing about a phrase

319
00:11:16,150 --> 00:11:14,959
like uh trust but verify or

320
00:11:18,710 --> 00:11:16,160
you know various things that have been

321
00:11:21,110 --> 00:11:18,720
either attributed to historical figures

322
00:11:22,949 --> 00:11:21,120
or they're just folk sayings uh or their

323
00:11:25,269 --> 00:11:22,959
recent sayings uh

324
00:11:27,509 --> 00:11:25,279
and you know and so i would do like a

325
00:11:28,870 --> 00:11:27,519
little like minute and a half blurb

326
00:11:30,230 --> 00:11:28,880
about that saying

327
00:11:32,069 --> 00:11:30,240
and i called it a skeptical fortune

328
00:11:33,910 --> 00:11:32,079
cookie and you'd have the sound effect

329
00:11:35,509 --> 00:11:33,920
of the cookie opening yeah that was all

330
00:11:38,069 --> 00:11:35,519
pasqual but

331
00:11:41,190 --> 00:11:38,079
we do have an audio engineer among our

332
00:11:43,350 --> 00:11:41,200
threesome here and uh

333
00:11:45,190 --> 00:11:43,360
from there i graduate i sat in on one of

334
00:11:47,190 --> 00:11:45,200
the the episodes that was about gambling

335
00:11:48,230 --> 00:11:47,200
superstitions because i live in las

336
00:11:50,310 --> 00:11:48,240
vegas

337
00:11:52,470 --> 00:11:50,320
and uh and then as things become easier

338
00:11:53,990 --> 00:11:52,480
it became easier to do remotely and you

339
00:11:56,710 --> 00:11:54,000
know people have been doing podcasts

340
00:11:58,310 --> 00:11:56,720
from different cities all the time uh i

341
00:11:59,829 --> 00:11:58,320
started becoming a regular part of the

342
00:12:01,430 --> 00:11:59,839
podcast and it just became the three of

343
00:12:03,030 --> 00:12:01,440
us and that seems to

344
00:12:05,590 --> 00:12:03,040
really worked out because

345
00:12:06,790 --> 00:12:05,600
the three of us bring vastly different

346
00:12:09,110 --> 00:12:06,800
backgrounds

347
00:12:11,509 --> 00:12:09,120
ben is in an editor

348
00:12:13,910 --> 00:12:11,519
and a writer and a professional you know

349
00:12:15,910 --> 00:12:13,920
skeptic who's been in it forever and

350
00:12:17,350 --> 00:12:15,920
an investigator he's gone and

351
00:12:19,030 --> 00:12:17,360
investigated a bunch of purported

352
00:12:20,790 --> 00:12:19,040
hauntings and helped people who thought

353
00:12:22,949 --> 00:12:20,800
that their homes were haunted

354
00:12:25,990 --> 00:12:22,959
and he's got the uh he's got the the

355
00:12:28,550 --> 00:12:26,000
chops the research chops and then

356
00:12:32,310 --> 00:12:28,560
pasquale is a

357
00:12:34,230 --> 00:12:32,320
tattooed hard rock a guitarist uh

358
00:12:36,150 --> 00:12:34,240
worked in la you know knows a bunch of

359
00:12:37,829 --> 00:12:36,160
show business

360
00:12:40,230 --> 00:12:37,839
big bit he looks like he's just hopped

361
00:12:41,829 --> 00:12:40,240
off a harley dave when i met him

362
00:12:43,350 --> 00:12:41,839
i mean he walked into the restaurant and

363
00:12:45,269 --> 00:12:43,360
he looked like he's just got off his

364
00:12:47,110 --> 00:12:45,279
heart it was on route 66

365
00:12:49,350 --> 00:12:47,120
and you know pascal and i had never met

366
00:12:51,750 --> 00:12:49,360
before but as soon as we saw each other

367
00:12:53,670 --> 00:12:51,760
it was a you know a really sincere man

368
00:12:55,670 --> 00:12:53,680
hugging great to meet you this sort of

369
00:12:57,269 --> 00:12:55,680
thing and he got on instantly and he's

370
00:12:57,990 --> 00:12:57,279
that sort of guy isn't he's a wonderful

371
00:13:01,190 --> 00:12:58,000
guy

372
00:13:02,949 --> 00:13:01,200
yeah his voice does not convey how how

373
00:13:04,870 --> 00:13:02,959
large and man

374
00:13:06,870 --> 00:13:04,880
he's got a very genteel like you know

375
00:13:07,750 --> 00:13:06,880
very completely back sort of voice yeah

376
00:13:12,949 --> 00:13:07,760
yeah

377
00:13:15,350 --> 00:13:12,959
just recently on the skeptic zone

378
00:13:18,470 --> 00:13:15,360
talking about the 5g conspiracy

379
00:13:20,790 --> 00:13:18,480
yes how what 5g is actually all about

380
00:13:22,629 --> 00:13:20,800
yes yes he was and then i'm i'm a

381
00:13:24,230 --> 00:13:22,639
cartoonist i've i've studied people's

382
00:13:25,990 --> 00:13:24,240
faces my whole life i'm big on

383
00:13:27,269 --> 00:13:26,000
pareidolia in fact that was one of the

384
00:13:29,590 --> 00:13:27,279
things ben

385
00:13:31,030 --> 00:13:29,600
right after he saw me uh with my james

386
00:13:32,710 --> 00:13:31,040
randy sculpture

387
00:13:33,910 --> 00:13:32,720
like the next day or a couple hours

388
00:13:35,590 --> 00:13:33,920
later or something he comes over with

389
00:13:37,509 --> 00:13:35,600
one of the old

390
00:13:39,830 --> 00:13:37,519
magazines we have a trade publication

391
00:13:42,310 --> 00:13:39,840
called exaggerated features

392
00:13:43,910 --> 00:13:42,320
[Laughter]

393
00:13:45,750 --> 00:13:43,920
and i had written a bunch of stuff for

394
00:13:47,670 --> 00:13:45,760
them and one of it one of the articles

395
00:13:50,150 --> 00:13:47,680
was all about pareidolia and he threw it

396
00:13:51,030 --> 00:13:50,160
on my desk he goes you wrote this and

397
00:13:53,110 --> 00:13:51,040
i'm like

398
00:13:55,509 --> 00:13:53,120
yes i did

399
00:13:57,590 --> 00:13:55,519
and we started talking paradolia for for

400
00:13:59,590 --> 00:13:57,600
a while well one of the one of the

401
00:14:01,269 --> 00:13:59,600
really interesting episodes of squaring

402
00:14:03,670 --> 00:14:01,279
the strange and i certainly can't recall

403
00:14:06,150 --> 00:14:03,680
which one it is off the top of my head

404
00:14:07,110 --> 00:14:06,160
where you were talking about

405
00:14:10,069 --> 00:14:07,120
somebody

406
00:14:11,990 --> 00:14:10,079
drawing someone from memory

407
00:14:14,150 --> 00:14:12,000
and you were pointing out

408
00:14:16,790 --> 00:14:14,160
as an artist you knew when you're doing

409
00:14:18,550 --> 00:14:16,800
a facial the facial features to get the

410
00:14:20,710 --> 00:14:18,560
proportions exactly right means you're

411
00:14:22,629 --> 00:14:20,720
copying from a photograph you're not

412
00:14:24,230 --> 00:14:22,639
do you remember this conversation

413
00:14:25,990 --> 00:14:24,240
look at the words don't think i i don't

414
00:14:27,829 --> 00:14:26,000
think i said exactly that because i mean

415
00:14:29,350 --> 00:14:27,839
you can hear a lot of stuff from from

416
00:14:31,910 --> 00:14:29,360
memory and you can do a lot of stuff

417
00:14:33,670 --> 00:14:31,920
yeah but but you can tell if somebody's

418
00:14:35,110 --> 00:14:33,680
more or less tracing from a photograph

419
00:14:37,590 --> 00:14:35,120
you know it doesn't it doesn't look like

420
00:14:39,110 --> 00:14:37,600
a drawing not exactly but i think i did

421
00:14:41,910 --> 00:14:39,120
give a i do i think you're thinking of

422
00:14:43,750 --> 00:14:41,920
the dove ads the ads about

423
00:14:46,069 --> 00:14:43,760
women and their self-esteems and how

424
00:14:47,829 --> 00:14:46,079
they describe themselves oh possibly yes

425
00:14:49,910 --> 00:14:47,839
yeah yeah i could actually

426
00:14:51,430 --> 00:14:49,920
yeah this this they had this forensic

427
00:14:54,069 --> 00:14:51,440
artist who's who was hearing

428
00:14:55,350 --> 00:14:54,079
descriptions and drawing uh people from

429
00:14:58,310 --> 00:14:55,360
and there was just there was just too

430
00:15:00,470 --> 00:14:58,320
many red flags in that where i'm like

431
00:15:01,750 --> 00:15:00,480
i'm very skeptical of this whole ad

432
00:15:03,189 --> 00:15:01,760
campaign the way that they're present

433
00:15:05,269 --> 00:15:03,199
they're presenting it

434
00:15:07,430 --> 00:15:05,279
and uh and and i

435
00:15:08,790 --> 00:15:07,440
i guarantee you the artist knows what

436
00:15:10,949 --> 00:15:08,800
the purpose is

437
00:15:13,430 --> 00:15:10,959
uh from what he's been producing here

438
00:15:14,870 --> 00:15:13,440
that's right yeah yeah it's sorry it's

439
00:15:16,069 --> 00:15:14,880
just flipping around my mind at the

440
00:15:18,230 --> 00:15:16,079
moment i can't remember the exact

441
00:15:20,389 --> 00:15:18,240
details but i do remember thinking what

442
00:15:23,269 --> 00:15:20,399
a fascinating insight

443
00:15:25,430 --> 00:15:23,279
something that never occurred to me

444
00:15:27,030 --> 00:15:25,440
i wish i could remember um

445
00:15:28,710 --> 00:15:27,040
exactly what i said because that was a

446
00:15:30,870 --> 00:15:28,720
few years ago but

447
00:15:32,470 --> 00:15:30,880
when the dove ads came out purporting to

448
00:15:35,030 --> 00:15:32,480
have these you know these

449
00:15:37,670 --> 00:15:35,040
it was essentially this forensic artist

450
00:15:39,110 --> 00:15:37,680
listened behind a shield and only drew

451
00:15:40,389 --> 00:15:39,120
these women from descriptions of

452
00:15:43,590 --> 00:15:40,399
themselves

453
00:15:46,150 --> 00:15:43,600
and got it he got a remarkable likeness

454
00:15:47,670 --> 00:15:46,160
which seemed a little like

455
00:15:50,230 --> 00:15:47,680
i don't know if you can get a remarkable

456
00:15:54,790 --> 00:15:52,310
you you

457
00:15:55,590 --> 00:15:54,800
the trick with forensic artwork is is

458
00:15:57,590 --> 00:15:55,600
not

459
00:16:00,629 --> 00:15:57,600
the drawing ability it's being able to

460
00:16:02,310 --> 00:16:00,639
pull the details from the witness right

461
00:16:03,749 --> 00:16:02,320
show them all

462
00:16:05,910 --> 00:16:03,759
does he have a nose like this or nose

463
00:16:09,189 --> 00:16:05,920
like that you know yes yes

464
00:16:10,870 --> 00:16:09,199
and so i yeah i i questioned exactly how

465
00:16:13,430 --> 00:16:10,880
much of a real experiment that was

466
00:16:15,189 --> 00:16:13,440
versus just an ad and it wasn't

467
00:16:16,790 --> 00:16:15,199
it was to sell you something apart from

468
00:16:19,110 --> 00:16:16,800
being a very interesting and

469
00:16:22,150 --> 00:16:19,120
entertaining segment to listen to

470
00:16:23,269 --> 00:16:22,160
uh i i thought you know what i'd never

471
00:16:27,189 --> 00:16:23,279
thought of that

472
00:16:29,430 --> 00:16:27,199
an investigation but it takes someone

473
00:16:31,189 --> 00:16:29,440
like you with your skill and background

474
00:16:32,790 --> 00:16:31,199
to bring this to our attention say

475
00:16:34,629 --> 00:16:32,800
here's another aspect you probably

476
00:16:36,470 --> 00:16:34,639
didn't think about oh well

477
00:16:37,910 --> 00:16:36,480
it's also a community i'm plugged into

478
00:16:40,790 --> 00:16:37,920
you know i wasn't just talking about my

479
00:16:42,629 --> 00:16:40,800
own experience drawing people i i had

480
00:16:44,870 --> 00:16:42,639
listened to a bunch of comments uh

481
00:16:46,949 --> 00:16:44,880
people had started threads about it uh

482
00:16:48,870 --> 00:16:46,959
portrait artists uh people who did do

483
00:16:50,790 --> 00:16:48,880
courtroom drawings were like

484
00:16:52,550 --> 00:16:50,800
commenting about the dove ads and so i

485
00:16:54,790 --> 00:16:52,560
was plugged into that whole community

486
00:16:57,910 --> 00:16:54,800
yeah breaking that down now before we

487
00:16:59,509 --> 00:16:57,920
get into talking about the the strange

488
00:17:02,069 --> 00:16:59,519
gurgling noises we're hearing from the

489
00:17:04,230 --> 00:17:02,079
other room or not i'm not sure

490
00:17:05,029 --> 00:17:04,240
that's right i can't hear you

491
00:17:09,590 --> 00:17:05,039
uh

492
00:17:11,270 --> 00:17:09,600
just a little bit more about squaring

493
00:17:14,309 --> 00:17:11,280
the strange because i i think it's a

494
00:17:16,150 --> 00:17:14,319
terrific podcast i i enjoy it very much

495
00:17:17,909 --> 00:17:16,160
from a technical point of view now

496
00:17:20,710 --> 00:17:17,919
you're very involved with putting the

497
00:17:22,230 --> 00:17:20,720
damn thing together aren't you

498
00:17:24,470 --> 00:17:22,240
well that sort of fell into my lap

499
00:17:26,870 --> 00:17:24,480
because we had uh we had some

500
00:17:28,309 --> 00:17:26,880
you know life gets in the way every all

501
00:17:29,830 --> 00:17:28,319
of us have got various things to deal

502
00:17:34,230 --> 00:17:29,840
with we've all got families we've all

503
00:17:36,150 --> 00:17:34,240
got uh jobs and pasqual found himself uh

504
00:17:38,310 --> 00:17:36,160
starting a new job and

505
00:17:40,310 --> 00:17:38,320
uh and and various things at home had

506
00:17:43,270 --> 00:17:40,320
changed and they had a death in the

507
00:17:45,190 --> 00:17:43,280
family and everything went crazy for a

508
00:17:46,950 --> 00:17:45,200
while and pasqual had been editing the

509
00:17:48,789 --> 00:17:46,960
show and he said you know i could show

510
00:17:49,590 --> 00:17:48,799
you i could show you how and i said okay

511
00:17:50,310 --> 00:17:49,600
sure

512
00:17:52,710 --> 00:17:50,320
so

513
00:17:55,430 --> 00:17:52,720
he showed me how i edited the show and i

514
00:17:57,350 --> 00:17:55,440
just i i liked doing it

515
00:17:59,669 --> 00:17:57,360
it's not a it's not a terribly

516
00:18:01,750 --> 00:17:59,679
complicated thing to edit a podcast on

517
00:18:03,830 --> 00:18:01,760
audacity and so i started doing it and

518
00:18:05,270 --> 00:18:03,840
then i just kept with it and now i'm the

519
00:18:06,470 --> 00:18:05,280
podcast editor

520
00:18:08,070 --> 00:18:06,480
and uh

521
00:18:09,669 --> 00:18:08,080
trying to do a decent job there's a

522
00:18:12,549 --> 00:18:09,679
plenty i still need to learn but you

523
00:18:14,549 --> 00:18:12,559
know i i i get by so i do the podcast

524
00:18:15,990 --> 00:18:14,559
editing yeah and and from a technical

525
00:18:18,310 --> 00:18:16,000
point of view of course when you the

526
00:18:20,630 --> 00:18:18,320
three of you are doing an episode you're

527
00:18:22,870 --> 00:18:20,640
all in completely different locations

528
00:18:24,950 --> 00:18:22,880
yes we are um yeah and how does that

529
00:18:30,870 --> 00:18:24,960
work

530
00:18:32,870 --> 00:18:30,880
vegas and gr and uh uh

531
00:18:35,270 --> 00:18:32,880
ben and pasqual are in

532
00:18:37,190 --> 00:18:35,280
uh new mexico and it's the same sort of

533
00:18:38,870 --> 00:18:37,200
climate we're actually not all that if

534
00:18:40,710 --> 00:18:38,880
your your listenership might not know

535
00:18:41,430 --> 00:18:40,720
the layout of the uh the united states

536
00:18:43,350 --> 00:18:41,440
but

537
00:18:45,590 --> 00:18:43,360
uh we're not that far from each other

538
00:18:47,430 --> 00:18:45,600
we're like a state away like i'm in the

539
00:18:49,909 --> 00:18:47,440
bottom of nevada and they're in the

540
00:18:51,990 --> 00:18:49,919
bottom of new mexico so it's

541
00:18:53,909 --> 00:18:52,000
like just just go across utah and you're

542
00:18:57,909 --> 00:18:53,919
there or not rather go across arizona

543
00:18:59,430 --> 00:18:57,919
and you're there yes so so but but you

544
00:19:01,110 --> 00:18:59,440
say right we're meeting i don't know

545
00:19:03,270 --> 00:19:01,120
when you record the show on whatever

546
00:19:05,350 --> 00:19:03,280
evening or afternoon and

547
00:19:07,350 --> 00:19:05,360
how how do you hook up how are you

548
00:19:08,549 --> 00:19:07,360
hearing each other to to conduct the

549
00:19:10,390 --> 00:19:08,559
podcast

550
00:19:12,150 --> 00:19:10,400
uh we use a platform there's a number of

551
00:19:15,909 --> 00:19:12,160
platforms available online the one that

552
00:19:17,990 --> 00:19:15,919
we've been using is zencaster

553
00:19:20,549 --> 00:19:18,000
it has a few bugs but they've seemed to

554
00:19:22,549 --> 00:19:20,559
work those out uh and but there's plenty

555
00:19:24,630 --> 00:19:22,559
of other you know there's oh i can't

556
00:19:25,990 --> 00:19:24,640
think of the names off hand but there's

557
00:19:27,830 --> 00:19:26,000
a number of other

558
00:19:29,350 --> 00:19:27,840
online platforms you just sign up for

559
00:19:32,310 --> 00:19:29,360
and subscribe to

560
00:19:34,470 --> 00:19:32,320
and so all the software is is

561
00:19:36,789 --> 00:19:34,480
online you don't have to load anything

562
00:19:38,789 --> 00:19:36,799
you just plug into it sign up and then

563
00:19:40,549 --> 00:19:38,799
you can take people and take so we've

564
00:19:42,150 --> 00:19:40,559
been able to interview people from all

565
00:19:44,070 --> 00:19:42,160
over the world we we actually just

566
00:19:46,549 --> 00:19:44,080
interviewed bob bartholomew who lives in

567
00:19:48,390 --> 00:19:46,559
auckland new zealand

568
00:19:50,150 --> 00:19:48,400
that's fantastic and i think and and

569
00:19:51,510 --> 00:19:50,160
from memory i think i joined you a

570
00:19:52,470 --> 00:19:51,520
couple of years ago as a guest on the

571
00:19:54,150 --> 00:19:52,480
show and i think that's all

572
00:19:55,830 --> 00:19:54,160
browser-based wasn't it

573
00:19:58,470 --> 00:19:55,840
yeah basically you give your guests a

574
00:20:00,150 --> 00:19:58,480
url and and away you go but it's

575
00:20:02,310 --> 00:20:00,160
impressive because when you're listening

576
00:20:04,149 --> 00:20:02,320
to the show as a listener when the three

577
00:20:06,390 --> 00:20:04,159
of you are chatting it's like you you're

578
00:20:08,230 --> 00:20:06,400
all next to each other

579
00:20:09,990 --> 00:20:08,240
oh yeah yeah there's thankfully there's

580
00:20:11,510 --> 00:20:10,000
not really a delay or anything so we can

581
00:20:12,870 --> 00:20:11,520
just you know chat and and of course

582
00:20:14,710 --> 00:20:12,880
there's editing stuff that you don't

583
00:20:16,470 --> 00:20:14,720
hear or see behind the scenes

584
00:20:18,710 --> 00:20:16,480
um tell me about it

585
00:20:21,909 --> 00:20:18,720
if we do talk over each other we try and

586
00:20:24,390 --> 00:20:21,919
we try and untangle that out so yes yes

587
00:20:26,070 --> 00:20:24,400
folks if um if you're ever wondering

588
00:20:27,430 --> 00:20:26,080
putting together a podcast is not as

589
00:20:28,710 --> 00:20:27,440
simple as running around and doing

590
00:20:31,270 --> 00:20:28,720
interviews and getting together and

591
00:20:34,230 --> 00:20:31,280
talking that's just the beginning then

592
00:20:36,310 --> 00:20:34,240
you've got the edit which

593
00:20:37,990 --> 00:20:36,320
depending on the segment or the guest or

594
00:20:40,149 --> 00:20:38,000
the report be

595
00:20:41,510 --> 00:20:40,159
an extensive experience a long

596
00:20:44,470 --> 00:20:41,520
experience yeah

597
00:20:46,230 --> 00:20:44,480
the sausage has to get made and uh

598
00:20:48,549 --> 00:20:46,240
and we're yeah if you don't end up

599
00:20:50,789 --> 00:20:48,559
editing this uh this particular

600
00:20:52,630 --> 00:20:50,799
uh video you might hear my dog barking

601
00:20:55,190 --> 00:20:52,640
and my child loudly reciting the

602
00:20:56,390 --> 00:20:55,200
alphabet i thought it was out here but

603
00:20:58,549 --> 00:20:56,400
i'm yeah

604
00:21:00,830 --> 00:20:58,559
i remember we have very different we

605
00:21:03,430 --> 00:21:00,840
have very different podcasting uh

606
00:21:05,270 --> 00:21:03,440
obstacles uh i've got the dog and the

607
00:21:08,149 --> 00:21:05,280
child and then you've got i remember you

608
00:21:09,110 --> 00:21:08,159
telling me oh these damn lorikeets and

609
00:21:10,870 --> 00:21:09,120
they're like

610
00:21:14,310 --> 00:21:10,880
what are those and you sent me these

611
00:21:16,870 --> 00:21:14,320
photos of these exotic beautiful birds

612
00:21:19,830 --> 00:21:16,880
that would be that would be treasured as

613
00:21:21,750 --> 00:21:19,840
pets and sold for hundreds of dollars

614
00:21:24,310 --> 00:21:21,760
if they were here in the united states

615
00:21:25,830 --> 00:21:24,320
but they are uh they're apparently like

616
00:21:27,830 --> 00:21:25,840
pigeons for you guys they're just

617
00:21:29,590 --> 00:21:27,840
everywhere when you get when you get

618
00:21:31,590 --> 00:21:29,600
several hundred in the tree next door

619
00:21:33,430 --> 00:21:31,600
that's it you pack up the podcast and

620
00:21:34,789 --> 00:21:33,440
you just go down and have a nice cold

621
00:21:36,870 --> 00:21:34,799
drink or something

622
00:21:38,710 --> 00:21:36,880
now before we go before we go and

623
00:21:41,590 --> 00:21:38,720
speaking about the funny gurgling noises

624
00:21:43,029 --> 00:21:41,600
from the the next room of course uh

625
00:21:45,190 --> 00:21:43,039
you're a

626
00:21:46,950 --> 00:21:45,200
relatively new mom you've been a mum now

627
00:21:48,789 --> 00:21:46,960
for a few years

628
00:21:50,149 --> 00:21:48,799
and just from your point of view

629
00:21:51,990 --> 00:21:50,159
i was just about to say just from your

630
00:21:54,390 --> 00:21:52,000
point of view and being involved in

631
00:21:56,630 --> 00:21:54,400
critical thinking and skepticism you

632
00:21:58,950 --> 00:21:56,640
must have especially in the early days

633
00:22:02,470 --> 00:21:58,960
come across a fair bit of shall we say

634
00:22:04,630 --> 00:22:02,480
woo and nonsense aimed at young mothers

635
00:22:07,350 --> 00:22:04,640
oh yeah well i'm not a young mother but

636
00:22:09,430 --> 00:22:07,360
i'm a new mother a new mother let me oh

637
00:22:11,029 --> 00:22:09,440
i waited quite a while before i decided

638
00:22:13,909 --> 00:22:11,039
to procreate

639
00:22:16,230 --> 00:22:13,919
and uh there you know mainly when you're

640
00:22:18,149 --> 00:22:16,240
pregnant that seems to be the target

641
00:22:19,510 --> 00:22:18,159
zone when you're pregnant and when

642
00:22:22,070 --> 00:22:19,520
you're very new mother and you're

643
00:22:23,430 --> 00:22:22,080
breastfeeding i mean and i got sucked up

644
00:22:27,350 --> 00:22:23,440
into a lot you know

645
00:22:29,430 --> 00:22:27,360
not fully but i i you gotta kind of like

646
00:22:31,510 --> 00:22:29,440
harness your your your feelings because

647
00:22:34,149 --> 00:22:31,520
your body is flooded with all sorts of

648
00:22:35,750 --> 00:22:34,159
hormones and and worries and

649
00:22:36,710 --> 00:22:35,760
and you're in this altered state of mind

650
00:22:38,310 --> 00:22:36,720
where you're just trying to do

651
00:22:40,230 --> 00:22:38,320
everything right and you're paranoid

652
00:22:42,470 --> 00:22:40,240
about all the things that can go wrong

653
00:22:45,190 --> 00:22:42,480
and so if you hear you know breast milk

654
00:22:46,710 --> 00:22:45,200
is the best thing for your child

655
00:22:48,710 --> 00:22:46,720
even if you're a skeptic you're like

656
00:22:49,909 --> 00:22:48,720
well i should try you know

657
00:22:52,789 --> 00:22:49,919
and

658
00:22:55,110 --> 00:22:52,799
was just not one of those ones that

659
00:22:57,590 --> 00:22:55,120
could breastfeed easily and i had a

660
00:22:59,350 --> 00:22:57,600
discussion with my my doctor my ob gyn

661
00:23:01,270 --> 00:22:59,360
and he said well why are you trying to

662
00:23:03,430 --> 00:23:01,280
breastfeed i said because it's supposed

663
00:23:06,310 --> 00:23:03,440
to be i mean i'm a skeptic i know it's

664
00:23:07,990 --> 00:23:06,320
not completely you know

665
00:23:10,549 --> 00:23:08,000
everything they say but it does give the

666
00:23:13,830 --> 00:23:10,559
child antibodies right and he said well

667
00:23:15,590 --> 00:23:13,840
yeah a little bit temporarily

668
00:23:17,510 --> 00:23:15,600
and i said

669
00:23:19,029 --> 00:23:17,520
what are the reasons to bread breast

670
00:23:21,110 --> 00:23:19,039
feed and he said the number one reason

671
00:23:23,590 --> 00:23:21,120
is it saves money

672
00:23:25,750 --> 00:23:23,600
formula costs money it saves money and i

673
00:23:29,350 --> 00:23:25,760
i thought about that and i had i had

674
00:23:31,430 --> 00:23:29,360
turned down a 500 job

675
00:23:33,990 --> 00:23:31,440
because i needed

676
00:23:36,070 --> 00:23:34,000
an overtime thing i had i had come i had

677
00:23:38,870 --> 00:23:36,080
been hired to do like two hours at this

678
00:23:40,870 --> 00:23:38,880
corporate event and they wanted me to be

679
00:23:43,750 --> 00:23:40,880
later and i could not because i didn't

680
00:23:45,350 --> 00:23:43,760
bring my pumping apparatus with me and i

681
00:23:46,549 --> 00:23:45,360
you know i

682
00:23:48,549 --> 00:23:46,559
i don't know if i can use the word in

683
00:23:50,870 --> 00:23:48,559
gorge but i was engorged and i needed to

684
00:23:53,510 --> 00:23:50,880
get home i think we understand yes i

685
00:23:56,310 --> 00:23:53,520
can't stay for another two hours i have

686
00:23:57,669 --> 00:23:56,320
to go yeah and uh and i turned and you

687
00:23:58,950 --> 00:23:57,679
know a big corporate gig like that

688
00:23:59,830 --> 00:23:58,960
you're turning down a lot of money and

689
00:24:01,190 --> 00:23:59,840
i'm like

690
00:24:03,909 --> 00:24:01,200
that would have bought

691
00:24:06,070 --> 00:24:03,919
months worth of formula why am i doing

692
00:24:08,710 --> 00:24:06,080
this if the only reason is is to save

693
00:24:10,630 --> 00:24:08,720
some money so interesting yeah yeah so

694
00:24:12,789 --> 00:24:10,640
you can get caught up in things

695
00:24:14,630 --> 00:24:12,799
because nobody one thing we've learned

696
00:24:16,070 --> 00:24:14,640
as skeptics especially working with

697
00:24:17,750 --> 00:24:16,080
other skeptics like

698
00:24:21,269 --> 00:24:17,760
i can be very knowledgeable about a

699
00:24:22,549 --> 00:24:21,279
certain area that pasqual and ben aren't

700
00:24:25,269 --> 00:24:22,559
ben can know a lot of things that

701
00:24:28,549 --> 00:24:25,279
pasqual and i don't and and you need to

702
00:24:30,630 --> 00:24:28,559
go to the people who know the material

703
00:24:33,350 --> 00:24:30,640
and as a new mother it's just almost

704
00:24:35,990 --> 00:24:33,360
impossible to research absolutely

705
00:24:38,149 --> 00:24:36,000
everything that that comes at you in the

706
00:24:39,750 --> 00:24:38,159
short amount of time you have yeah yeah

707
00:24:41,510 --> 00:24:39,760
yeah you're you're not you're only a

708
00:24:43,510 --> 00:24:41,520
mother for you know well you're a mother

709
00:24:45,510 --> 00:24:43,520
forever i guess after you have a child

710
00:24:47,590 --> 00:24:45,520
but you're only pregnant and then have a

711
00:24:49,830 --> 00:24:47,600
newborn for so long that's a limited

712
00:24:52,630 --> 00:24:49,840
amount of time and you get a and you're

713
00:24:54,789 --> 00:24:52,640
also unlimited sleep

714
00:24:56,950 --> 00:24:54,799
and you're just deluged with information

715
00:25:00,149 --> 00:24:56,960
and so it helps to have a skeptical

716
00:25:01,830 --> 00:25:00,159
toolkit but yeah yeah

717
00:25:03,830 --> 00:25:01,840
a little bit of a little bit of critical

718
00:25:05,909 --> 00:25:03,840
thinking can go a long way well listen

719
00:25:07,590 --> 00:25:05,919
celestia well what a treat to catch up

720
00:25:10,070 --> 00:25:07,600
with you again we're old friends apart

721
00:25:11,750 --> 00:25:10,080
from anything else we are good firm

722
00:25:13,590 --> 00:25:11,760
friends we've known each other for many

723
00:25:15,430 --> 00:25:13,600
years it was always a great delight to

724
00:25:17,830 --> 00:25:15,440
see you in person haven't seen you in

725
00:25:19,909 --> 00:25:17,840
person for far too long i hope you can

726
00:25:21,750 --> 00:25:19,919
get out to cycon uh one of the times

727
00:25:24,310 --> 00:25:21,760
that they have the uh cycon

728
00:25:26,230 --> 00:25:24,320
now the world is

729
00:25:28,549 --> 00:25:26,240
this is a skeptical thing to do now the

730
00:25:29,430 --> 00:25:28,559
world is fingers crossed getting a bit

731
00:25:32,149 --> 00:25:29,440
more

732
00:25:33,830 --> 00:25:32,159
together after the pandemic uh we'll

733
00:25:35,669 --> 00:25:33,840
have to wait and see now when when

734
00:25:37,269 --> 00:25:35,679
people want to check out your podcast if

735
00:25:38,950 --> 00:25:37,279
they haven't heard squaring the strange

736
00:25:41,110 --> 00:25:38,960
so far uh

737
00:25:43,990 --> 00:25:41,120
where should they run to uh find out

738
00:25:45,149 --> 00:25:44,000
more well we've just got a link tree uh

739
00:25:46,710 --> 00:25:45,159
started so if you go to

740
00:25:48,710 --> 00:25:46,720
squaringthestrange.com you'll find our

741
00:25:51,029 --> 00:25:48,720
little link tree that goes to various

742
00:25:52,870 --> 00:25:51,039
things about the the show uh and and of

743
00:25:57,029 --> 00:25:52,880
course the show squaring the strange

744
00:25:58,230 --> 00:25:57,039
you'll find that on uh libsyn.com and uh

745
00:26:01,190 --> 00:25:58,240
and uh

746
00:26:02,630 --> 00:26:01,200
all your podcast dispensers so yes

747
00:26:04,149 --> 00:26:02,640
and of course if you listen to the

748
00:26:05,669 --> 00:26:04,159
skeptic zone you'll often hear

749
00:26:07,350 --> 00:26:05,679
promotions for squaring the strange

750
00:26:08,789 --> 00:26:07,360
because i'm very pleased to

751
00:26:10,149 --> 00:26:08,799
keep promoting the show because i

752
00:26:11,990 --> 00:26:10,159
believe it's a good show and it's an

753
00:26:13,590 --> 00:26:12,000
entertaining show with three wonderful

754
00:26:15,510 --> 00:26:13,600
hosts including

755
00:26:17,669 --> 00:26:15,520
our guest today celestia awards celestia

756
00:26:20,470 --> 00:26:17,679
ward all the way over there in fabulous

757
00:26:24,920 --> 00:26:20,480
las vegas thank you very much thanks for